Francesca Hayward 2024

Francesca Hayward

Principal, The Royal Ballet

Interviewed by David Bain
American International Church, Thu 13 June, 2024

Following David’s welcome, Francesca began by telling us about the current Ashton triple bill. Her first show of Rhapsody is next Wednesday and Saturday will be her last show of the season as she’s not in Swan Lake so it will be a lovely and exciting way to end a long season. It’s been an interesting process as she’s also involved in Hamlet and Ophelia and The Dream.Kevin said he doesn’t want to overwork her as they are all in the same bill so she could choose what to come out of. Frankie said she’d find it disappointing to watch others do any of them, so she’d do them all and won’t complain about feeling too tired! The week before The Dream opened, she was on stage every day in a different wig, including opening The Dream and Hamlet, with a general as well so it was a very tough week but she is really enjoying it, particularly having Lesley Collier back for Rhapsody is really lovely. New casts are tackling Rhapsody and she recalls performing it for the first time with James Hay. There was only one other cast with Laura Morera and it was a huge learning process. It was the only time when she thought she’d have to give up as it was so difficult, her feet didn’t move fast enough and sometimes she was really struggling on a step and Lesley would say ‘originally we put in two more steps in that count’. That debut is one of her most cherished memories. It’s been a joy to come back to it as it’s in her body, she knows the music instinctively and doesn’t have to count. Seeing Mayara Magri and Sae Maeda making their debuts and struggling she can now say ‘you will get there’ and tries to help them where she can, whereas she was struggling with just Lesley in the studio. She is on stage with Joonhyuk Jun as Marcelino Sambé couldn’t do The Dream and Rhapsody at the same time, otherwise he’d be on crutches! Jun was the cover, so this is his big moment and it’s the first time they’ve danced together. He’s quite tall and Alexander Agadzhanov, the coach, tells him he’ll have to bend down more but he’s ready to do anything. There’s no chance for her to go to sleep in The Dream as most of the time is spent climbing in and out of the bower, covering up with a black curtain with Johanna Adams Farley, stage manager, saying curtain opening, curtain closing, and things being thrown in like Bottom’s boots which then have to go back to the stage manager, and trying to help him out of the head so there’s a lot going on behind the scenes.

Experiences in The Dream. She was very lucky to debut at quite a young age with Marci. Frankie recalled an early morning stage rehearsal when Phil Moseley, the scheduling manager, warned them there’d be a practice fire drill in the middle of rehearsal so they might want to cover up as it was raining. She has a sweet picture of them standing around in the Piazza in full costume, with wig and crown. She’s performed the pas de deux in so many galas around the world. She recalled performing outdoors in Grasse when there was a special moon which looked as if it was part of their set. In Colorado the stage was covered though the audience weren’t and as Marci came on there was a lightning strike and it poured with rain so it seemed that Oberon had done it on purpose! It’s seven years since they did the whole work and it’s wonderful to have Anthony Dowell who has such a good eye and so much detail and pearls of wisdom to give them. Although he now uses a stick, he can still demonstrate the lifts with strong hands. On opening night when he and Antoinette Sibley came on to the stage, he showed he still has partnering magic and, even though quite frail, he was able to help her stay upright. They’d watched old videos of Anthony and Antoinette Sibley and Ashton is always there with his cigarette pushing them for more.

Wayne Eagling is coaching them with Hamlet and Ophelia.Frankie was involved two years ago when it was in the Linbury but now it will be on the main stage. There’s only a very old grainy video so most rehearsals they were looking at the laptop for details. The music isn’t obvious, and you have to learn it. It took a long time to piece it together, but the details are as accurate as possible. Wayne remembers so much and although it was made on Nureyev, he only did a couple of shows so Wayne did the rest with Margot. Wayne will also still do partnering. They had Wayne and Alessandra Ferri coaching for Different Drummer. It’s been quite a season being with the people who created various roles and Frankie would like to pass this on as accurately as possible. Wayne was keen to come back and has been away for a long time. In the Linbury they were notating it as she and William Bracewell went along and now there is a notator with them though there are a few moments where Margot does moves it’s very hard to recreate. Wayne remembers all the details especially for the male part. Lady Sarah Chatto is doing the designs. She is always so lovely, quiet and gracious and a genuine person. She is very excited and passionate about it but also open to suggestions, so it’s been a two way process.

Different Drummer. Frankie hadn’t seen it before casting and thought she’d be doing Requiem. But after the opening night of Manon with Marci she told Kevin it was her best experience ever at which point he offered her Different Drummer. She then watched and read it. It was very interesting, very much a journey, the music difficult with two different composers, and it very much felt like a ballet of two halves, and she took a while to understand her character. It’s also very difficult partnering. She is usually quite adventurous and brave and launches herself at her partner, but it wasn’t like that in Different Drummer because some of the lifts are quite dangerous. In one she is upside down with just her foot around Marci’s neck and he swings her round and lands her back on the other side. You just have to hope for the best. There’s another scary lift in the last pas de deux and she squealed a lot as although she trusts Marci completely she wasn’t sure he was going to catch her. So much of MacMillan’s ballets is about partnering and your partner is absolutely exhausted by the end. When you’re that tired you almost stop seeing people and she was aware Marci was fighting to stick with her and although he’s so strong, he gave every last bit of strength in that ballet. It’s equivalent to a four-act ballet in 45 minutes. It was difficult to find enough depth in her character. There are lots of layers to her but it’s difficult to portray those different layers. You can’t judge characters, and you have to get the audience to empathise as well but it’s Frankie’s favourite thing to delve into a character and sometimes only find it when you’re in full make up and costume from start to finish. Frankie said Edward Watson always gives detail, knows the intention of every single moment and helps you understand. Alessandra’s take on Manon totally transformed it for her. It was her fourth time of doing it and she gave Frankie a whole new lease of life with different thoughts, making it feel totally fresh. She is such an artist and actress, and everything has to make sense to her so it is always extraordinary and very touching to hear what she has to say. With Different Drummer they went back to the original with Wayne and Alessandra though they did also watch a video of Ed and Leanne. Alessandra would say don’t worry about how many pirouettes you’re doing or how high your leg is - you need to show the emotion and the meaning of it. It was very new for everyone, and the costumes have changed. Frankie did the first rehearsal in Leanne’s red dress which didn’t feel right as she’s not a glamorous character. Deborah MacMillan was at the rehearsal and agreed it wasn’t right, so they made a replica of the original design which Frankie wore for the first part, before changing into the more glamorous dress for the party so they had the original and the adapted versions. It’s very important to have someone like Deborah guarding the work and providing another pair of eyes and it was great to have her there from the beginning. You come on and suddenly she’s there and you care about what she thinks so if she’s happy, you feel happy.

It’s one of the few MacMillan triple bills the company has done recently and Deborah would like another. There are works Frankie hasn’t seen and the Royal Ballet should be doing them if they could be brought back. It’s a big honour to be given those works which aren’t so well known.

Manon. It was Marci’s debut. She felt it was an extraordinary opening night, just trying to support him and he handled the pressure so well. Frankie has had quite a few Des Grieux. She first danced it with Ed Watson, and then Federico Bonelli, and both knew it so well which helped her to know it better. Also, when Alexander Campbell made his debut she knows what it should feel like so can help him. If you are both debutants you can only go on what your coach has told you. Marci’s her best friend, and she’s spent most of the season hanging on his neck in different wigs and getting confused about which role it is!

Of other MacMillan works, Frankie talked of Mayerling. She was in the corps when she was cast as Stephanie which is a big role. She couldn’t do the stage rehearsal because of an injury and went straight into the opening night performance with Ed Watson so there was lots of pressure. When he comes out with the gun it’s a nerve-racking situation and you want the pas de deux to go well because you don’t want to make Rudolf’s life more difficult and tiring - he has to get through the rest of the ballet. Her first role in the company was harlots in Manonand while in the school it was townspeople in Romeo and Juliet and these roles teach you how to act and you have to match the standard of those around you who are so experienced. You’re thrown in at the deep end and have to get involved. For her first performance as a town’s person, she was pulled out of a French lesson in school. Monica Mason sat at the front checking her acting and James Hay was the dead body who she had to cry over. That’s the challenge of MacMillan, you have to think for yourself and be as believable as possible. Those actions on the side are what make the whole scene come alive. When she did Stephanie you could shoot the gun on stage but now because of Health and Safety that’s not allowed so you have to wait for the noise and react. They had to have a safety briefing for Alice where the starter pistol is involved, and there’s no longer a grave in Mayerling as the trap door is another victim of Health and Safety.

Unusually Frankie danced Manon before Juliet. Dancing with Ed Watson was a never to be forgotten experience. One of the best things he said to her at the first stage rehearsal, with everyone curious to know what the new youngster would be like, was don’t be intimidated by anyone and just do your best. It’s just you and me and focus on that and telling the story. You have to forget about the audience whereas in most ballets you have to give more energy to the front.

Frankie’s first Romeo was Matthew Golding who is much bigger and taller than she, and they didn’t know each other so it was quite an odd experience. The next time she came back to it and after making the film it helped her think about Juliet even more. It was almost harder having done Manonbefore. Manon is knowing and calculated whereas Juliet is youth and naivety. She likes to play with it and see how she feels on the night and how the other characters react on stage. The different characters inform how you feel about it each evening.

Filming Romeo and Juliet. At first, they thought they wouldn’t make it as they would need two to three weeks to film and the money wouldn’t stretch that far so it had to be filmed in a week which was a very big challenge. They mapped it all out in the Opera House so knew the dimensions of the set, the different rooms and where the doors would be and rehearsed here so didn’t waste time once in Budapest where they did some tweaking. The film crew were shocked – if they were given five minutes break the dancers came back on time whereas with actors they’re normally having to drag them back on set, so they worked hard and made it work. There were some uncomfortable moments. When Tybalt is killed in Act II, they had a rain machine and Billy Trevitt and Michael Nunn wanted them to scream and rage. Kristen McNally as Lady Capulet was sobbing her heart out (she should have won an Oscar) and it was so overwhelming, the towns girls started wailing and Frankie was wailing on the side. Immediately after that, she and William had to film the balcony scene.It was late at night and apparently everyone on the bus going home was silent. Will had given everything to the fight scene and Frankie had no idea how he would manage to move on to the balcony scene straight afterwards, but he took a moment’s rest and turned himself into the young lover. It helped it was her 27^th birthday. It was a windy night, and her dress floated in the right direction without need for a wind machine. Now together she and Will have done Swan Lake, Romeo and Juliet and Hamlet is coming up.

Frankie has done other films including Catsand playing the young Audrey Hepburn in Audrey with Alessandra as the older character. They were filming in a theatre in Brighton where she was on stage and they wanted it to look dramatic so it was dark except for the spotlights which make it hard to balance and she was trying not to fall over. Audrey had a complicated relationship with her father who was absent though she wanted to be part of her life, and they’d hired an actor to sit in the auditorium to represent him. They were filming them both and suddenly in a rush at the end of the day they said they needed a clip of them meeting as if they’d not met for years and Frankie had to hug this man she’d never met and cry in a very emotional scene, and then she was whisked back to London!

Alice is at the start of next season. Frankie has done it twice, and her debut was with Vadim Muntagirov which was very lucky. He’s also very tall and there’s a step in Act III where your leg goes over his head but because she’s so small he was practically in a full squat. He is a fantastic partner and such a sweet soul. She was very ill at the time of the stage rehearsal and hadn’t been able to eat properly and it’s so hard as you’re on stage the whole time being a young girl with lots of energy. She felt so weak she could barely raise her arms but Vadim manoeuvred her around the stage and did the pas de deux for her. Next, she danced with Tristan Dyer who’s now left the company. It’s a really tough ballet. The new girls will be in shock, but she might find it easier this time. Speaking of Chris Wheeldon, Frankie said every choreographer has a different way of working. With Like Water for Chocolatethey were making a new ballet but Alice iscoming back so it’s not so creative. Chris gives a lot of notes, perhaps ten notes on how to do it the next time. It was a big honour to have a ballet made on her and Marci and it was the longest process ever. They were meant to start before lock-down and had a few rehearsals before she’d read the book but lock-down gave her plenty of time to catch up. They began creating in the studio and a year later they were still creating so it felt never ending. From the beginning to the first show, it took four years. It’s very enjoyable, with so many things happening and completely entertaining, so many props and quick changes and the last pas de deux is very beautiful and it was lovely to do it with Marci. The book is bonkers, and she wondered how some of the actions could be recreated but Chris managed it and it was very entertaining in the studio. It was wonderful to have the writer, Laura Esquivel, at the premiere. Frankie can’t cook but before every chapter there is a recipe. No-one tried to cook them though Aiden O’Brien is a very good baker. She also worked with Chris on Within the Golden Hour.

Wayne McGregor. One of her first roles was the pas de deux in Infra but she’s done lots of things since then. A new ballet is particularly brutal and doing Sleeping Beauty and Woolf Works at the same time is very demanding on the body and makes her a bit grumpy, but it’s liberating making those moves on stage and Wayne gets fascinating people in to work with them which is always exciting. She was one of the original masked ravens in Raven Girls. She’s not sure if she’ll be in MaddAddamand hasn’t read the books but has all summer to read them. Next season they’ll start with Alice and also Cinderella over Christmas. Kevin asked if she and Cesar Corales, her real-life partner, were OK to dance together, wanting to make sure there weren’t going to be any arguments in the studio. She hasn’t seen Cinderella so much but remembers her grandma taking her to the Opera House at the age of five to sit in the front row of the Orchestra Stalls watching Darcey Bussell as Cinderella. As a student she often replaced injured dancers and remembered the stars in Act 3 which make lots of intricate movements so you can’t mess it up for everyone. She’s quite a quick learner and doesn’t crumble under pressure. Sometimes someone would go off after 5.30 and she’d go for an emergency call. She was even put into the back line of tall girls having 10 minutes with the ballet mistress calling up down, down up, then into a quick call with all the girls in their trainers and everyone a bit grumpy as they’d rather be having a break or doing their makeup. It’s really terrifying, and you have to keep your cool. Then she was one of the small girls in the front line which was also terrifying, and her hand was shaking. But she does enjoy the ballet. This time there were new costumes and sets which they saw at the last minute. There are some shocking colours and other surprising things turning up. Lesley Collier had just retired but Frankie was so happy she came back for Cinderella. Act I is quite tricky, there’s lots to remember, moving a table here and cleaning and things that can go wrong like the broom stick which can be tricky if it’s not balanced correctly at the fireplace. In the Act II stage rehearsal, she was so tired she had to rely on her partner to hold her up which Alex did. He, who’s been her main partner during her career, has now retired and they danced Manon together as his last show. She has special memories of Cinderella particularly with Alex, and the music in the Act II pas de deux gives her goose bumps and makes her tearful and he hears the music exactly as she does.

Next season there’s also Romeo and Juliet,and Onegin is coming back. She didn’t watch the latter when younger so it’s quite new to her though she did Olga last time. She was away when Reid Anderson came in and he is very particular who is cast and normally has to approve but Kevin said please take a chance on Frankie doing Olga. She won’t be around until the stage rehearsals, but she’ll get there and be good. So, there was quite a lot of pressure but Kevin vouched for her and Reid approved.

Frankie has done lots of magazine photo shoots. She didn’t actively seek it but has always loved fashion and fashion magazines. W H Smith was the most exciting part of a trip to town when she was young. She still loves them and tries not to be a hoarder. To her, fashion is art and not frivolous or ridiculous as there’s so much craftsmanship involved. She was very thrilled when British Vogue asked for her portrait for one of the issues and they came to the Opera House where she was photographed in a very jewelled gown on the staircase. She’s had some amazing experiences and has met some of the top people in fashion and has learned the more famous the more lovely, gracious and relaxed they are. There’s insecurity among those not at the top of their game whereas with the top people everyone is relaxed and trusting and there’s a lovely atmosphere. She’s worked with some incredible photographers and stylists and it’s such fun for her. They always say it must be so exhausting for you, but she thinks you haven’t tried Swan Lake! Everything is fetched for you; people ask if they can get you anything (where are these people at the Opera House?!) and if you’re invited to travel abroad it’s always first class treatment. It’s quite a shock coming back to the Opera House. Even on a film set everywhere you go someone is following and you’re fed everything whereas in the theatre they are responsible for everything themselves, including hair and make-up, and being on time at the stage. Dancers are much appreciated on a film set because of their discipline. Modelling they wear lovely clothes and jewellery, but they’re whisked away immediately after, especially the jewellery.

David said he’d read her article in the newspaper in which she said she’d like to be the Director of the Royal Ballet one day. Frankie says she stands by that statement – but not soon, as she’s not sure where her career is going. There doesn’t have to be a date, or an age and she’ll see how her body copes. She would love to do more acting but feels she’s meant to be in the ballet world as she has lots of ideas. There’s so much to learn and she’d love to shadow Kevin in the way that Tamara Rojo shadowed Karen Kain, and she thinks she could be good at it but isn’t ready to speak about her ideas right now.

The Limit was an unusual way to start the season. It made them feel quite separate as the company were rehearsing Don Q which is her least favourite ballet. It was very challenging. Alex had the idea during lock-down and she said she’d think about it. It took a very long time to workshop, and they had to test it and showed a 20 minute piece to prove to the Opera House that it would work. They were then told the Linbury couldn’t fit it in for another two years, in 2023. They worked with it on and off in chunks, working all day in the studio with the director and Kristen McNally. It’s a terrifying thing having to use the voice. As a ballet dancer you never forget the steps, but they were worried about forgetting the words. You know your lines and the choreography but putting the two together you go into shut down. They got very frustrated but made it in the end and they were very proud of each other. They really enjoyed it and would be happy to do it again, maybe not in the Opera House but another small theatre.

Frankie had worked with Kristen before in Draft Works and she made a pas de deux for Frankie to take to Japan in the summer. All her partners at the Royal were booked up so she did it with Gabriele Frola of ENB.

What does her new role as Royal Ballet School Ambassador involve? The title sounds grander than it is and it’s not a huge job. The Royal Ballet School have a programme for teachers in regional dance schools and it’s a way of them learning the Royal Ballet rep. It seems a bit like the opposite of RAD in that it’s not structured in terms of steps and technique but gives them the tools to be more creative and choreographic. It’s something Frankie feels passionate about as her first dance teacher in Sussex was very much about feeling free and adventurous and not being bogged down by steps.

Does she see herself as a future coach? In some ways yes. Kevin is a great coach and has a very good eye and is a good partner. So, she’d love to be in the studio passing her knowledge on either as coach or director but it requires an enormous amount of patience. She definitely wouldn’t like to be a teacher in a ballet class but fine tuning and giving the extra edge to the professionals is different. She can give a particular note such as Lesley Collier told her that Ashton said something which is from the horses mouth and would be amazing.

Is it easy to teach master classes? She always makes it clear she’s not a teacher. Until she took a class, she didn’t realise how much you use your voice and are speaking and moving at the same time. It is very hard and now she has even more respect for teachers. If she sees someone in the company struggling, she’s very careful about what she says, perhaps something like ‘maybe this will help you’. Everyone has to do it their own way, but you can take a moment to give people a tip.

She recently saw a film which she thought would make a good ballet. More and more she likes strong female character roles where she can get on stage and be feistier rather than submissive. There’s room for more powerful females in ballet.

Ballets in the rep she’d like to do. She hasn’t done Tatiana which has recently gone on her list. She’s now doing Manonfor the fourth time and every time she comes back to it she grows as an artist. At nearly 32 she feels ready to do more modern work before the limbs start hurting too much.

An audience member mentioned that with classical ballets you seem to need perfect balance to a denouement but with contemporary works there’s not the same build up to an extraordinary moment. Does Frankie miss it in contemporary works? She said there are special moments in, for example, Crystal Pite’s work and sometimes with Wayne’s but they are very different and perhaps more self-indulgent. It was always her ideal to be the swan in Swan Lake or Aurora in Sleeping Beauty. There are goose bump moments in the big classical roles, sitting on the bed in Romeo and Juliet being one.

Does it feel frustrating after all the hard work to have only a couple of performances so less time on stage? Frankie said yes but it works two ways. It is wonderful that Kevin is giving opportunities to other dancers. But she used to have three or four shows which was the norm. The first show you’re nervous, the second there’s similar energy because it’s the last and you want it to go well, but with three you settle into it and grow a bit more. She’s done debuts with just one matinee and does tell Kevin politely how she feels.

David thanked Frankie so much for coming and said it was always a delight to watch her on stage and to talk to her. She brings an enormous amount of enjoyment to all of us and we’re looking forward to seeing her as Director and to hearing what her ideas and programming will be.

Report written by Liz Bouttell and edited by Francesca Hayward and David Bain.

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Francesca Hayward 2024

Francesca Hayward

Principal, The Royal Ballet

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